The Tragedy of the Athenian Ideal in Thucydides and Plato (Greek Studies: Interdisciplinary Approaches)

Review
For Hogan, Thucydides contributes to Athenian civic conversations and, implicitly, to ours as well (xxv, 290). A colleague once asked how such an intricate book, written to be read and reread, could converse. Great question. The best answer I could muster was that it can be a resource for continuing conversations among its readers, always, of course, needing words. If that answer resonates at all, Hogan’s interpretive effort is a provocative contribution to that continuous revisiting. ― The Review of Politics
"John T. Hogan brings Thucydides and Plato into dialogue in this book. He does a masterful job of comparing Plato’s and Thucydides’ views of Athens as an imperial power, and their views on Pericles and Alcibiades, the nature and goodness of democracy, the purpose and value of democratic rhetoric, what counts as statesmanship, and more. The most intriguing content in this book is Hogan’s extensive treatment of Alcibiades as Thucydides saw him and Alcibiades, Socrates’ erstwhile lover, as Plato saw him. This book is an excellent resource not only for understanding ancient history but the impact of the decline in democratic rhetoric at any time." -- Laurie Johnson, Kansas State University
"This book analyzes Thucydides’ presentation of the deterioration of political debate and conceptual categories at Athens during the Peloponnesian War. In so doing, it also explores manifold points of contact between Thucydides and Plato, highlighting their common concerns and persistent examination of contemporaries such as Pericles or Alcibiades. It thus fills an important desideratum of contemporary scholarship, which is entirely lacking in book length studies of the relation between the two authors." -- Edith M. Foster, The College of Wooster
"Hogan argues that a careful examination of the language that Thucydides chose in the speeches that are presented throughout The History of the Peloponnesian War reveals a theme of stasis. Thucydides focuses not only on the long war throughout ancient Greece, but also the unrelenting decline in values within Athens, which had tragic consequences for the birthplace of democracy. This is a book that merits study for itself, to better understand what took place in an important case 2,500 years ago, and for what yellow flags it raises for us in our own era.” -- Lowell Gustafson, Villanova University
John T. Hogan’s The Tragedy of the Athenian Ideal in Thucydides and Plato assesses the roles of Pericles, Alcibiades, and Nicias in Athens’ defeat in Thucydides’ Peloponnesian War. Comparing Thucydides’ presentation of political leadership with ideas in Plato’s Statesman as well as Laches, Charmides, Meno, Symposium, Republic, Phaedo, Sophist, and Laws, it concludes that Plato and Thucydides reveal Pericles as lacking the political discipline (sophrosune) to plan a successful war against Sparta. Hogan argues that in his presentation of the collapse in the Corcyraean revolution of moral standards in political discourse, Thucydides shows how revolution destroys the morality implied in basic personal and political language. This reveals a general collapse in underlying prudential measurements needed for sound moral judgment. Furthermore, Hogan argues that the Statesman’s outline of the political leader serves as a paradigm for understanding the weaknesses of Pericles, Alcibiades, and Nicias in terms that parallel Thucydides’ direct and implied conclusions, which in Pericles’ case he highlights with dramatic irony. Hogan shows that Pericles failed both to develop a sufficiently robust practice of Athenian democratic rule and to set up a viable system for succession.